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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1857
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Posted - 2016.01.18 22:49:57 -
[1] - Quote
Poddington Bare wrote:The SP transfer thing will make it completely normal, and gradually people will feel necessary for new players. Is that really healthy for the long term future of Eve? Why would they feel it necessary?
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1857
|
Posted - 2016.01.18 23:09:38 -
[2] - Quote
Poddington Bare wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Why would they feel it necessary? You know how it is. Once the genie is out of the bottle, it becomes a thing that more and more newbies/people do. Pretty soon, in order to not be killed on the undock by other newbies, you'll need it too. Arms race! So those newbies become competent via SP alone and thus are able to kill those other newbies on the undock? What undock? Why are they even being shot at? If they can freely be shot at why are there no vets popping both groups?
Since the equal 1v1 is the exception rather than the rule anyways, would you ever even be able to appreciably feel the difference? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1857
|
Posted - 2016.01.18 23:45:05 -
[3] - Quote
Poddington Bare wrote:Okay, okay, maybe the example I gave of being "shot on the undock" was more a metaphor than a truth. I'll not answer your other questions regarding the game mechanics, as I'm sure you already know. Still, leaves the underlying issue in any situation, SP gaps already exist but we expect new players to work and learn their way through them.
And that expectations isn't "whip out the CC and go to the character Bazaar." Why would that change? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1857
|
Posted - 2016.01.18 23:58:39 -
[4] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:EVE becomes very expensive to be competitive. Is Eve supposed to make everyone equally competitive? Or is it being argued that with the choice to try it becomes some sort of mandate?
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1857
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 01:35:29 -
[5] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:For one thing, because most newbies probably don't know the CB exists, much less which character they should buy there. But more importantly - the new system lets them gradually buy a new character. Only few people would get into a game, and then drop 500 Bucks into it to buy a 30M Character right away. However, now they can buy their Character in 20-Dollar-Pieces. Need Cruiser V? 20 Bucks. Medium Projectile Turrets V? 20 Bucks. That's much less of a barrier right there.
Newbies already feel the need to drop 20 Bucks into the game early on to buy shiny ships they will inevitably lose way too often. If they get the possibility to buy Skill points slammed in their faces from day one, while getting the **** kicked out of them by all those dudes in way too expensive ships who obviously have more SP than them - of course they will feel that they need to buy those SP to be competitive. It doesn't matter so much if this system makes Eve more or less P2W than it already is, but it sure will look like every other crappy P2W MMOG, only that you have to pay a monthly fee on top. That's part of the point in a way, isn't it? This is supposed to lower the barrier of entry for character advancement. That still doesn't necessarily equal an expectation though, or even a need. How many actually do drop PLEX on shiny ships/mods as is? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1857
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 01:52:34 -
[6] - Quote
Leonerd Dice wrote:Um ... He has a valid point you idiots ... the game is kind going Pay To Win, Does this mean I'll be able to make a bunch of Trial Accounts. And then just transfer over SP? This isn't good you retards. morons.
CCP this isn't the way to go. You should read the blogs on this before coming up with hypotheticals that won't work..
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1857
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 03:20:32 -
[7] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Yes, that's the point. But does that make it any better? The barrier it lowers is just the one in players heads, that wouldn't be willing to purchase 20 PLEX at once to get a Character, but would potentially spend the same over time. This is not a way to help Newbies progress faster, it's a way to sell more PLEX quickly. It's more than a barrier in player heads, You even quantified it in real numbers.
Neuntausend wrote:I don't have a problem so much with the fact that people will be buffing their Characters. As has been pointed out: SP don't make a good pilot, and you can only ever fly one ship at a time, which for most ships doesn't nearly take 50M SP. What worries me is the impression this system will leave on new players. We have PLEX on the market already, which is bad enough. But if you started playing a game, and saw that you can pretty much buy ingame currency for money, and then advance your character with it, thereby effectively bypassing the "natural progression" in every game-mechanically relevant way if you just drop enough money into it - what kind of game would you think it is? Honestly, about the same as any other now. There aren't that many pure sub games left and, while I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, when I came into the game and saw PLEX my reaction was the opposite. The idea of spend RL and get isk was never an idea I had as a new player. My thought was "get good > play 4 free". With TSP it would have been, "get good > get SP." So long as it's on the market I can't see it as anything other than another high priced in game commodity which encourages real cash expense in the same way having deadspace mods does.
Neuntausend wrote:We older players know that neither does one have to sell PLEX for ISK, nor for SP, and that neither currency nor character stats make nearly as much of a difference as they typically do in other games. But a completely new player will not know that. People that don't like P2W will be repelled by this, and people who are used to P2W will quickly learn that they cannot actually P2W in Eve and get frustrated rather quickly as well (admittedly, not until after sending CCP some money).
As for how many new players actually sell a PLEX in their first month - I don't have statistics on that, but I see it happen rather frequently. And typically, even the ones who don't do at least think about it. My new player experience argues the opposite. The new player would need to understand PLEX/AUR as a system prior to thinking TSP is a P2W system. Seeing them on the market makes it just another consumable for the same currency you're earning through normal gameplay, albeit a large sum of it.
Without that understanding the path to TSP is simply "play the game more." And there is the factor of SP not making one better, but it unarguably makes more choices available and from that alone gives a measurable sense of progress. Honestly I'm starting to think the crowd yelling P2W at this and effectively advertizing the PLEX>isk>TSP path are doing more to push new players in that direction than simply leaving it be. So long as people keep stating it's THE method for new players to get it of course they won't just work in game towards it.
Edit: Forgot it's not TSP but injectors now. I liked TSP better. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1857
|
Posted - 2016.01.19 03:32:21 -
[8] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I'm not a fan of it either. But the "I'm quitting" rage is counter productive, it just looks like crying to people. It's better to lay out the issue rationally...then rub CCPs nose in it in a few months with it all goes Bits up. We've been doing that for years and we'd accepted a lot of bullshit but P2W is where I draw the line. Since CCP doesn't want to listen to reason and they're doing the "lets squander EVE's values and core game mechanics for profit" then I don't want to be a part of that. On top of that it reeks of a firesale. The only option I have is to vote with my wallet, it's the only thing CCP listens to. SP is winning again apparently. |
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